Karren Brady on The Apprentice, gender inequality and Molly-Mae Hague

Welcome to Metro.co.uk‘s The Big Questions, where we ask, well, the big questions (and the smaller ones too) and this week, we’re diving deep with The Apprentice boardroom boss Baroness Karren Brady.

The businesswoman is best known as being the current vice-chairman of West Ham United FC, and was former managing director of Birmingham City FC. To you, she may be known best as aide to Lord Alan Sugar on The Apprentice, or maybe it’s her House of Lords role.

In a nutshell, she does a lot.

But mentoring females in business is a personal passion of hers and speaking to Metro.co.uk around International Women’s Day, Karren shared the importance of the day to not only ‘reflect on what women have achieved but encourage a new generation of women to carry on achieving’, after a study by Simply Business found one in three (32%) female entrepreneurs have experienced sexism as a business owner, while one in five (19%) have faced unequal access to opportunities.

As well as gender inequality in the boardroom, we also unpack her thoughts on the criticism of Molly-Mae Hague’s comments on success, this season of The Apprentice (and whether Claude Littner will be back) and why men aren’t asked about Imposter Syndrome.

Why is it so important for you to be that mentor to women rising through the ranks of business?

Women like myself need to encourage other women to come into our industries to fight the equality battle, the gender pay gap, and unconscious bias.

It’s important we put ourselves out there to highlight what has been achieved, but how far we have to go; it’s still going to take 100 years to close the gender pay gap. It’s an important time to reflect on the issues we face and what we’re going to do about it.

How have challenges evolved for you over the decades?

They’re not eradicated but they’re certainly better. One of the things that has made it easier for women to have a career and a family is the internet, flexibility and mobile phones. They weren’t around when I was starting my career. 

When I had my first major role in 1993 in football, women were banned from boardrooms because it was a male-only environment. That was the first door I smashed down and I can assure you I’ve spent my career holding that door open to get as many other women through. I see it as a milestone of my career to champion other women and try to act as a role model to other women to encourage them to fulfil their aspirations as well as to campaign for change around some of the issues women are still facing.

Is it true when you were pitching to run Birmingham FC in the 90s you were told you had to be twice as good as a man?

Yes, to be thought of as only half as good…

I shouldn’t be surprised, but when you see that…

I think I said, ‘luckily that’s not difficult’. And it wasn’t difficult. My first year of running Birmingham City, we made a profit for the first time in the club’s history. 

Does your public profile hinder your business work, or help it?

I don’t see it as hindering or helping. I left school at 18 and I decided not to go to university. And the reason is that I spent much of my growing up at boarding school [where] you get up when you’re told, go to bed when you’re told, eat when you’re told, wear what you’re told and do what you’re told. By 18 I’d had enough of being told what to do and I wanted to have some control over my own life. 

One thing I realised was to have the independence that I wanted, which was my ambition, you have to have your own money. You’re not truly independent unless you have your own money. I didn’t know how you made money, but I came to the conclusion that it starts by getting a job. I went and got a job and my focus was my independence, having my own money and being in charge and in control of my own life.

There’s so much talk about Imposter Syndrome – have you ever felt it?

It’s interesting that Imposter Syndrome is often aimed at women rather than men, it’s never a subject men talk about, but it is a subject always put to women. Actually, it’s probably an unconscious way of saying ‘why haven’t you had Imposter Syndrome? Are you sure you’re not an imposter?’ I think it’s a reverse psychology to take away your confidence.

It’s completely normal you will sense check the decisions you make and the success or failures you’ve had, but I think Imposter Syndrome is a syndrome invented by men to take the confidence away from women.

Keeping on that, what do you make of the criticism lobbed at Molly-Mae for her comments on success – something a lot of men say without any backlash

I have no idea who Molly-Mae is, maybe you can enlighten me, sorry. I don’t know what the criticism was…

Ok, so she was on Love Island, and is now the creative director of PrettyLittleThing. She suggested on Diary of a CEO that everyone can have the same level of success if you just work hard, and that we all have 24 hours in a day. It created a conversation around privilege but also if a man would have faced the same criticisms for similar comments

Was the criticism that it’s not about hard work, it’s about her being on the show? As far as I know that show has been on a long time and quite a lot of people have been on it and none of them have seemed to share the same success she has, if all of the things you’re saying are true. 

There’s no doubt that she’s worked hard to achieve what she wants and rather than being critical of that, she should be praised. Opportunities come, it’s what you make of those opportunities, and you never really know what you’re capable of until you try. She’s turned it into a success and we should admire people like that.

I’m sure you see it yourself on The Apprentice where some people make the most of the opportunities and others don’t?

Obviously the winner gets a quarter of a million pounds and a business partnership with one of the words most successful entrepreneurs in Alan Sugar. Many others don’t but they still manage to run their business and have careers outside of the show. Somebody can give you a leg up but it’s what you do once you receive that and how much effort you put in carving out a career for yourself.

Viewers have touted this season as the best, has there been a stand-out moment for you so far?

The consolidated viewing figures have just come in and nine million people watched the first episode, it’s been a hugely successful show this year. 

I think a couple stand-out moments so far, the series is still going, is probably the first task. We started it with a bang, Alan Sugar sent them off to the new Virgin cruise ship Scarlet Lady and they had to develop an advertising campaign for a cruise ship experience. I followed the boys in what may well have been one of the most disastrous logos and theme I’ve ever come across in my life, let alone in The Apprentice. That was a standout moment in how to do things very badly.

How has it been without Claude?

We all love Claude, he’s such a wonderful individual and obviously he had this terrible accident which prevented him from taking part this year.

But Tim Campbell, a wonderful individual, so enthusiastic and positive and great to work with, stepped in. He brings a completely different aspect to the show because he’s been on the other side of the table, he’s been on a winning team, losing team, project manager, so he gives real insight into the dynamics of the team, the individuals, some of the difficulties they face, the ability of working together, or lack of it.

You shared your hopes that Claude will be back for next season

That’s the plan!

Are you hoping Tim will hang around?

Yes, obviously if Claude can’t come back Tim would be great to work with again. But I’m pretty much sure Claude is planning to come back. 

Karren Brady is an ambassador for Simply Business’ Empowering Women In Business initiative, offering one female entrepreneur an exclusive one-on-one mentoring session to improve their skills and confidence in business. Visit Simply Business for more info.