Bol News: You also faced sit-ins and protests when you were in power and Pakistan Awami Tehreek (PAT) had negotiations with Qamar Zaman Kaira who was part of your cabinet during Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) tenure. PPP is a left wing party which do liberal politics. What is PPP’s stance on the recent sit-ins, protest and march of Tehreek-e-Labbaik Pakistan (TLP)?
Raja Pervez Ashraf: Sit-ins and protests have become part of our politics now and these were witnessed in each and every tenure of the country’s political history. These sit-ins and protests are there in democratic setups but what is required from the government is the positive attitude, clear mindset and vision to diffuse the tense situation and sort out things amicably. As you mentioned about PAT that they carried out a long march to Islamabad from Lahore and had a sit-in there when I was the prime minister, we had a discussion and negotiations with them in a very peaceful and polite manner and dealt with the situation very wisely and never resorted firing, tear gas or something of that sort on the protesters.
In fact, we allowed them to come to any spot and have sit-in there and then we reached that spot and had successful negotiations with them. Earlier, we also dealt with the lawyers in the same way when they protested. We used political means by carrying out negotiations and talks with the lawyers and managed to diffuse the tense situation in a peaceful manner. So, that’s how political leadership and democratic governments usually diffuse such situations.
But the way adopted by the PM Imran Khan led PTI government to deal with TLP, it will lead to anarchy, bloodshed, blockade, problems for the masses etc and create a law and order situation which it has. Most importantly it leads to economic crisis and uncertainty also prevails amongst the poor masses of the country who are already in trouble due to rising inflation. Last but not the least, such failures on part of the govt also leads to embarrassment internationally and the image of Pakistan is also destroyed.
Bol News: We have witnessed time and again that PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto Zardari is very proactive and vocal on national and international issues and he is fast becoming the voice of the masses. But we haven’t seen his tweet on this issue of TLP. Is it the matter of the state or Imran Khan?
RPA: I would say that it is a matter for the sitting government to deal with. The state institutions come and take charge of the situation on the directions/request of the government. If you ask Army or Rangers to come and take control of the situation they will come on your orders. So, basically it is the responsibility of the elected government and these are the situations from which we could gauge the capability or efficiency of the government. When their capability and capacities are tested in tough or delicate situations. I feel that it is quite unfortunate and it is not a matter of political point scoring. I am not standing with PM Imran Khan led PTI government on the TLP issue because they mishandled the whole situation due to which it led to anarchy, uncertainty and law and order situation. I believe they are solely responsible for it.
Bol News: PM Imran Khan led PTI government has called the National Security Committee session and military and civil leadership had a meeting on this key issue. This was a meeting held at the highest level. Doesn’t it show seriousness on part of the government to handle the situation?
RPA: What I am saying is that if PM Imran Khan is a politician then he must explain that when such dharnas took place during the tenure of PML-N, what was his reaction? And what was the reaction of the current Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid at that time?
What I am saying is that it is these contradictions due to which the situation has worsened and the nation is going through an identity crisis and people are fighting among themselves. They (Govt) have deployed the state forces in-front of the masses which is a very dangerous thing especially when it comes to religion and someone’s beliefs. In such a situation the government has to deal with it patiently and wisely. Have they taken the parliament into confidence about what is being done? Have they taken the people of this country into confidence when they were negotiating with the protesters and signing the agreement with them? No, not at all. We asked them to tell us about the negotiations and what is the agreement with them but they didn’t share it with us. I feel that the government is responsible for the worsening situation.
Bol News: If the demands of the TLP and this issue is brought to the parliament, what will be PPP’s policy? Will it stand with the government?
RPA: If some pressure group or group of individuals pressurise the government to step down by using force and unfair means, we will never approve or favour such groups which is our clear cut policy and it is a democratic way. We believe that if one wants to get rid of the government then no confidence motion should be moved in the parliament which is a democratic way of removing the prime minister and the government. I think Imran Khan cannot justify the moves he has made because he (Imran) himself had a sit-in for 126 days due to which the visit of the Chinese president was postponed and that was a huge blow for Pakistan and he didn’t postpone the sit-in for a day. They tried to attack the parliament, PTV and he said that we will attack the PM house and asked the people of the country to stop paying taxes and utility bills and urged the masses to go for civil disobedience. How absurd and ridiculous was that?
I am not standing with this government because they keep on making blunders and creating problems one after the other. But I will also want to ask the people of TLP that if due to their protest and sit-ins people are in pain, they are finding it difficult to reach schools, hospitals, missing their flights due to road blockages etc, then TLP should stop this at once.
Also, why is the government carrying out negotiations with them when they are already declared a banned organisation? They (TLP) have even been allowed to contest elections despite the ban imposed on them and then the Govt also made some promises to them and gave them in writing. Has any other government or state done such a thing?
Bol News: How will the opposition make the government accountable when they are busy opposing each other? Take the example of Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) versus PPP? How will this be sorted out. What is your take on this?
RPA: No, there is nothing of this sort. Let me tell you that it is not a party opposition. We are different parties, we have our own manifestos, we have our own ideologies and own way of doing politics. It is true we were part of the Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM), in fact we formed the PDM when PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto Zardari called the multi-parties conference in Islamabad. I was its senior vice president. We had some difficulties continuing with PDM as we are not in favour of resigning from the parliament. We say and believe that we should continue playing our part from the assembly floors as well and we should not leave this forum.
Our experience also tells us the same, especially from 1985 onwards, that leaving any forum is not in favour of any political party. So, we told them that we don’t want to leave this forum. If you want, you people can leave it as it will be difficult for us to resign from the assemblies. We told them that we are democratic people and bringing no confidence motion is our democratic right which could be used to oust PM Imran Khan and his sitting government.
But the PDM parties said at that time that we should boycott upcoming senate or by-elections and argued that if we do not accept Imran Khan as the premier, what was the need to contest these elections. But the PPP told them not to give free space or margin to the government and in fact we gave IK and his govt very tough time and also defeated them in the Senate election for the Islamabad seat which was won by former premier Syed Yousaf Raza Gillani. That was actually a no confidence because defeating the government was a victory for us. So, as all of us have seen, when the opposition was united it managed to grab Islamabad’s seat of senate and also had managed to win the Chairmanship of Senate for Yousaf Raza Gillani if those votes were not rejected.
Bol News: When Hamza Shehbaz was released, PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto Zardari had a meeting with him where Maryam Nawaz ws not there. And now recently when senior PPP leader Khurshid Shah was released he received a call from PML-N supremo Nawaz Sharif. Is PPP clear who they want to coordinate with?
RPA: No. Look, groups within the party are PML-N’s internal matter and I think and feel that groups are there within PML-N. What I want to say is that if Khurshid Shah sahib received a phone call from somewhere at times it is the personal relationship of two individuals. Let me recall that when Mian Nawaz Sharif was the prime minister of Pakistan, at that time Khurshid Shah sahib was the leader of the opposition in the national assembly so normally they could have such a working relationship and it is a normal thing and it is also a custom of our society.
Bol News: PPP is talking a lot about no confidence motion. There are rumours that you people have also finalised a name for new CM Punjab. Why do you want to bring the no confidence motion in Punjab only?
RPA: No it is not that, but we have proved from our actions in the National Assembly that if other opposition parties listen to us we could make no confidence motion successful. We even said that let’s bring no confidence motion in the Senate as well. But the question is why does the PDM not want to bring the no confidence motion in Punjab when we want to and are confident of its success.
Bol News: PML-N has 164 seats in Punjab Assembly while PPP has 7. So how would you manage the number game against Buzdar?
RPA: We know that people are sick and tired of rising inflation and unemployment. People are contacting us, even the sitting MPAs and MNAs, because they know that their future is bleak if they stay with the PTI. In fact, in case you ask me honestly, even the people in PML-N are in contact with us for joining. Since the time PPP has started mobilising itself and reorganising in Punjab, you must have witnessed the change. Just see the recent joinings in Balochistan, in South Punjab, KP. And now you will witness in Central Punjab as well. People are also in contact with President Asif Ali Zardari for joining PPP.
Bol News: Why is PML-N reluctant to go for no confidence motion in Punjab?
RPA: In my personal opinion I think they don’t have the confidence in their own provincial assembly members. This is what I perceive from the things I listen to and witness that they have lack of confidence in their own MPAs. They (PML-N) think that they might not have the required 164 MPAs on their side if such a motion takes place.
Bol News: Has PPP managed to get the NRO for a second time recently because just when the charge-sheet was to be filed against the President Asif Ali Zardari, his lawyer Farooq H. Naek took a plea on the new ordinance and said that the charge-sheet couldn’t be filed. What is your take on this?
RPA: Let me tell you that it is a very wrong term being used. For PPP the term of NRO cannot be used at all because if Asif Ali Zardari had taken an NRO then he wouldn’t have spent twelve years in Jail. Prime Minister Imran Khan and his cabinet members are always saying left, right and centre that they want NRO. Let me be very clear, we don’t need any NRO. As far as ordinance is concerned it was a law passed which was promulgated by the president, so all the matters which are relevant have to be dealt with in accordance with this.
Bol News: Former MNA and PML-N Lahore President Pervaiz Malik was your colleague in the National Assembly and passed away recently. The ECP has announced a by-election in his constituency NA-133. Will the opposition have some sort of union or launch a joint candidate in this by-election? Secondly, the Punjab government is asking the ECP to delay or postpone NA-133 by-elections. What is this matter actually?
RPA: May Pervaiz Malik rest in peace. He was our colleague. Now that seat is vacated and by-election is being announced in this constituency, the PPP has fielded its old guard, worker and leader Aslam Gill how has been associated with PPP through thick and thin and has worked for party during the tenures of Shaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto.
The PML-N’s candidate is Shaista Pervaiz Malik. But the nomination papers of PTI’s candidate Jamshed Iqbal Cheema are rejected on merit because his proposer and seconder was not from that constituency which is the requirement. PTI is seeking delay or postponing this election because they know that masses are not happy with them due to rising inflation and unemployment and they will easily lose this by-election. They have also witnessed that people who have voted for them previously are coming to PPP and they are hoisting PPP flags in the constituency now.
Bol News: Election reforms are an important matter. PM Imran has said time and again that if there is an electronic voting machine (EVM) next election cannot be fair and you people also say that elections should be free and fair. How about if they try EVM in NA-133? It would be tested in this manner. What is your take on this?
RPA: First things first; the government should have nothing to do with the election as it is the work of Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP). Giving advice is something else but if they say that they want to do legislation on the basis of the small majority they have and bring EVM, we (opposition) have some concerns about it and have certain questions in our mind that we think that this EVM might be used as a tool for rigging against us in the elections.
What the government should have done is that they should have brought their experts on the table along with ours and addressed our questions which are acceptable to us and then perhaps they could use it in the elections. But this PTI government is habitual of making simple things difficult first and making it a crisis and then sits with a crying face.
I will again come back to this point that unfortunately the way they (PTI) have damaged each and everything including legislation is beyond comprehension. It is the job of the sitting government to take along the opposition with itself and the leader is the one who can take along everyone but they are here for the divide. Due to this, to date we are trying that the parliament runs regularly and functions smoothly but the Govt is making things go awry by delivering absurd speeches outside the parliament. So, what I am saying is that it is EVM or any other matter related to the elections, they are mishandling it like the way they mishandled the sit-in, appointments to key positions etc and have attacked each and every department. And lastly, after what their ministers have said about the ECP, is there any doubt left?
Bol News: I know PPP is very active these days across the country but what new agenda will PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto give to the masses or youth of this country that they will vote for PPP in the next general elections?
RPA: We don’t have to bring any new agenda. We have already proven time and again that nobody could make a better government than us whether it’s PML-N or PTI. Let me tell you PPP is the one in the history of the country which gave you the right to vote and we could be single-handedly credited for bringing democracy to the country. Before that, in a population of 100 million, only eighty thousand people had the right to vote.
During the tenure of Shaheed Zuflikar Ali Bhutto we gave the right to vote through the 1973 constitution, we initiated the atomic programme of the country. Now coming to the tenure of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto Shaheed, she brought missile technology to Pakistan to make our defence even stronger and she did loads of work for the betterment of the country.
Now coming to our government of 2008, we brought revolution in the lives of common people. We raised the salary of labourers, we increased the salaries of government employees by more than 120 percent, we raised the pensions by more than 100 percent.
Even our current sitting Sindh government is better than all the provinces in terms of governance. The law and order system is better, the irrigation system, the educational institutions are better and hospitals are even better and state of the art. People have realised that PPP is the party which gives employment and will stand with the masses. We gave the masses the Benazir income support program and we are the ones who could control the rising inflation and have the experience to run the government much better than these clumsy people who have destroyed this country.